Should Toskala Be Thrown Under A Bus?
September 27th, 2009 by Steve
Literally - no. Figuratively? Leafs nation is leaning that way apparently. Do I agree with the sentiment? Sometimes yes … most times no. Here’s why.
Over the course of his career, Vesa Toskala has a 2.67 GAA and a .905 SV% - neither of which are particularly bad. Two seasons ago he had a 2.74 GAA and a .904 SV% which isn’t far off of his career numbers, and he was playing in front of a crappy defensive team.
Last year Toskala was atrocious, playing with hip and groin injuries, sporting a 3.26 GAA and .891 save percentage. Recently that’s been compared to Andrew Raycroft who posted a 2.99 GAA and .894 save percentage during his first year with the Leafs, and a 3.92 GAA and .876 save percentage in year two with the buds.
Here’s the distinction. Raycroft was playing behind the same D as Toskala in HIS year 2, as Toskala’s year 1. So when Raycroft posts an .894, and Toskala posts a .904 save percentage, Toskala is better. Then last year Toskala played in front of a much worse defensive group, and he was injured, so he posted worse numbers.
A comparison between Raycroft’s first year, and Toskala last year is also a bit odious, because Raycroft was playing healthy, and Toskala wasn’t. If Raycroft’s best season with the Leafs matches Toskala’s worst - does that really mean we should chase the Finnish keeper out of town?
I’ve seen Toronto turn on good hockey players in the past, and this seems to be heading down that path. I have seen mention of 7000 minutes of “bad” hockey on the part of Toskala. That is HORRIBLY misleading, and frankly doesn’t deserve to be mentioned alongside anything close to an honest statistic.
In 2007-08 in the month of December he went 6-3-1 in 10 games while sporting a .935 save percentage and 1.79 GAA. Obviously he is capable of solid stretches of play. In February of the same season he went 8-4-1 in 13 games, and had a 2.38 GAA with a .915 save percentage. He is very capable of getting hot… and I’m not going to idly sit and ignore crap statements that he’s sucked for 7000 straight minutes.
Last season he claimed to have suffered his injury on November 11th - at which point he was 6-3-4 and had faced 337 shots stopping 305 of them for a .905 SV%. Which are right on par for his career numbers. Not amazing stats, but not atrocious either. If he can return to that form in the regular season for the Leafs, then there’s no reason to not support him as at least an adequate NHL performer.
Until he pancakes in the regular season, all of this is idle chit chat - and turning on a goalie at this point is well… pointless.
The main difference this season is the incoming Jonas Gustavsson whom everyone is prepared to coronate as the next star netminder for the Leafs. I know he stopped a 2 on 0… but that doesn’t mean Toskala is useless.
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20 Responses to “Should Toskala Be Thrown Under A Bus?”
By CG
on Sep 27, 2009
My main problem with Toskala is that he always let in 1 or 2 weak goals a game that seemed to demoralize the team. Last night’s goal at the end of the 1st was classic Tosk. He also lets in quick back-to-back goals every once in a while, which always makes me think of Raycroft. I’m not ready to give the job to the Monster but it’s certainly up for grabs.
By Steve
on Sep 27, 2009
Oh I’ll freely admit that Toskala gives up a lot of bad goals, I just don’t think anyone in particular should evaluate goalies based on the preseason.
If you’re basing Toskala’s judgement on that one bad goal, and Gustavsson’s solid play on his 3 periods of shut out hockey, that’s fine… I just think it’s a bit nuts to base that decision on 3 periods of play, or 1 goal.
Toskala has had a shutout before in a Leaf uniform… so he too has played 3 periods of solid hockey. I just think it strange that Toskala has gone from our only number 1 option to not necessary in less than 6 months.
By Dan
on Sep 27, 2009
Toskala’s our guy. No need to turn on him. I hope he improves this season and plays upwards of 60 games. I know with a better defense in front of him that he’ll put up better number. He’s already shown that in preseason. I’m happy with Gus, but lets not rush him just yet. If at the end of the year he’s on par with Toskala, then it’s a no brainer we move a head full speed with Gus. Gus is what many consider the future of the Leafs, but right now, it’s more important to put the best team on the ice, and if in the process that means Gus wins the job, then so be it. But for right now, Toskala’s our guy and until it’s solidly proven that he’s not, (more than just one game) than there is nothing to talk about.
By Ryan
on Sep 27, 2009
Because someone had to say it:
You can’t throw Toskala under a bus. It will just go right between his legs.
By Ted Bama
on Sep 27, 2009
Toskala is an average starter. Nothing more. The reason the media liked him after year 1 (much like they adored Razor after his huge win year) is simple: it’s Toronto media. The last few years there have been very few stars to cheer for on the Leafs other than Sundin (maybe Kaberle, though that is a stretch). So the mediocre goalies have to be praised.
I fully expect the Leafs to compete for a playoff spot this year and become a top 8-12 team by as early as next year - but I doubt Toskala is the reason for the turnaround…
By Steve
on Sep 27, 2009
I’ve written many times on Toskala’s mediocrity, and frankly poor play over the past two seasons. I don’t think Toskala is a top starter in the NHL, but I also don’t think he’s as bad as he’s being portrayed recently.
He’s probably of the caliber of a 1B goalie in the NHL, and he’s proven that in the past. Either way, I don’t think we should try to toss him aside on such scant evidence as we have from Gustavsson.
By glgbill
on Sep 27, 2009
Great article. Toskala is an important part of this year’s team. Period.
By Dan
on Sep 27, 2009
It’s much to early to jump on Toskala the way the media does. It’s going to take a lot more than 60 minutes of great hockey by Gus to steal the job away from Toskala. I’m sure 4-6 months down the road we’ll have no doubt who our starter is. One way or the other, it’s going to be pretty cut and dry. If they’re pretty much equal, than Gus gets the ball, but if Toskala’s rolling, than it’s end of story.
By Leafer
on Sep 27, 2009
I have always been a defender of Toskala but no more.His GAA and Save % numbers no where near where they need to be, even if he was battling injuries.
Throw him under the bus? Absolutely not, but I’m all done listening to excuses for this guys poor play.Weak deflating goals just like the one last night are all to common with Toskala.
As for Gustavvson and Mcdonald, they provide what the Leafs haven’t had for the last couple of years, an option in net.If Toskala struggles during the first 3-4 games I don’t think Wilson\Burke will hesistate to pull him and replace him with Gustavvson.
I sincerely hope Toskala plays well and regains his form, but make no mistake, he is all out of excuses and mulligans.
By Steve
on Sep 27, 2009
Ok I’ve been making this argument over at Pension Plan Puppets all afternoon so I’ll add a few bits of info here just to make some of this more clear.
1. Toskala’s injury last season doesn’t excuse the fact that before he suffered it he only had a .905 save percentage, which would have ranked him 31st in the NHL last year.
That being said, the Leafs were atrocious defensively, and he was just one of many bad aspects of that problem.
2. We’re basically judging Toskala on the results of 1 soft goal against Detroit, and three bad periods in the pre-season.
The first of those bad periods came in the 2nd period of the second game against the Flyers, where he allowed 3 goals en route to allowing 4, in a 5-4 OT victory. The strange part in blaming Toskala for that let down is, the Leafs were out shot 16-3 in that 2nd period, and were outplayed horribly. The players that scored those 3 goals were Daniel Briere and Chris Pronger, and frankly the Leafs had iced an inferior lineup to the Flyers on that night.
The second bad stretch would be the 2nd and 3rd period of the first Red Wings game, where Toskala replaced Gustavsson. When he came in, the Leafs as a team let up. The Red Wings out shot the Leafs 14 to 6 in the second period, and then 14 to 11 in the 3rd. The Red Wings also iced a superior line up in that game to the Leafs, with most of the damage being done by Johan Franzen, Pavel Datsyuk, and Tomas Holmstrom on the score sheet.
Somehow we’re blaming Toskala for the Leafs as a team being outshot 40-22 by superior competition? Yes he allowed 7 goals over the three periods I’m discussing, which is pretty damn bad, but it’s not that shocking when you look at it more closely.
In those 3 periods, the Red Wings and Flyers were on the power play a combined 8 times, and scored 2 power play goals.
If we toss out those 3 periods, and those 7 goals, Toskala suddenly has a 1.85 GAA and .935 save percentage. I don’t think he’s playing badly when the rest of the team actually shows up to play in front of him.
He obviously needs to be better at holding the fort when the team relaxes, but there is a limit to how good a goalie should have to be.
By Dave
on Sep 27, 2009
hmmm. that game really isn’t going to help Toskala avoid any buses …
By toni
on Sep 27, 2009
Tonights game say’s it all “he’s no dam good”
7 goals!! if he would’ve played the entire games against det, how many goals do you think he would’ve let in. I tell you right now toronto would have lost both games.
He’s not a top goaltender, not even good for backup, he can’t trust him.
He had his chance and a great one at that,get rid of him before he puts the leafs in a hole.
By toni
on Sep 28, 2009
Funny how Leafs TV tries to build Toskala up before the Buffalo game showing his pre-season record at 3-0-0 and the coach saying ” well now you can see Tosk’s can get the job done”
LOL, Meanwhile all along whenever he played the guy’s been nothing but a crutch who consistantly lets goals in from every direction, does’nt matter how you look at it.
It was the other goalies who got the job done!! not Toskala.
By Dan
on Sep 28, 2009
Yep. He’s definitely not making it easy to say that he’s the number one guy after games like last night. I’m sure Burke and Wilson are pissed right now. But, on the positive side, this will be used to have the team playing a bit better defensively on opening night.
By Steve
on Sep 28, 2009
Yeah, Toskala was bad… the defense was worse. The first 3 goals he had no chance on thanks to huge mistakes in coverage thanks to the D.
As the night wore on, he was playing worse himself, which only added to his misery. The last 2 goals were definitely his own fault.
Overall I’d say the entire team blew it from a defensive standpoint - Toskala included.
I was frankly shocked at how many mistakes Beauchemin made last night also. The whole team needs to wake the hell up before Wednesday though if they want to start off on the right foot.
By Leafer
on Sep 28, 2009
I’m warming up the bus, any volunteers to throw Toskala under it?
By Dan
on Sep 28, 2009
Defence is a position that you have to be ready to work at. It’s all hard work. Clearly after 3 games in 3 nights, the guys, including Toskala, were not ready to work for it. As much as it’s easy to throw Toskala under the bus, it’s important to look at why he was able to have such a bad game. But that’s the thing with Toskala, he’s always able to have excuses, he’s got to be the guy who steps up and shuts the other team down. I’m hoping that there were a few lessons learned tonight and that the defensive system comes back for the Habs game.
By kenny
on Sep 28, 2009
Nice to see some objectivity here for the most part, and less koolaid bandwagon nonsense. For the few who are ready to dump Toskala in favour of Gustavsson based on a few preseason periods, substitute “Toskala” with “Raycroft” and “Gustavsson” with “Toskala” and ask yourself if you were chanting similar things not too long ago.
By toni
on Sep 28, 2009
So,whats Toskala’s GAA in the pre-season out of the few periods that he played?
Under a bus is to soft, I’d lock and chain him to the train tracks and throw away the keys.