White vs. Van Ryn
October 2nd, 2008 by SteveSo the Leafs are close to the end of training camp, and the question that seems to be raising it’s head is, how can the Leafs negotiate their way out of the predicament created by their high number of D men?
Luke Schenn can go back to junior… though he might play 10 games at the NHL level, I’m assuming they will send him back rather than lose a year of his free agency down the line.
While Tomas Kaberle might agree to a trade later on this season, waiting until he no longer has any control over the situation might be to Cliff Fletcher’s benefit in terms of creating a bidding war for the Czech’s services. The more teams that are given an opportunity to nab the slick blue liner, the higher the asking price can go. Let’s remember that last season Brian Campbell was traded for a first rounder and a second line roster player in Steve Bernier. Bernier was subsequently traded to Vancouver for a 2nd and 3rd round pick. That means Buffalo got a hold of a first rounder, a second rounder, and a third rounder in exchange for an unrestricted free agent D man at the trade deadline. Mathieu Schneider was just traded by the Anaheim Ducks for Ken Klee, Brad Larsen, and Chad Painchaud. That’s 2 roster players including a veteran D man, a utility forward, and a spare part prospect that will likely never make the NHL. Schneider is an aging, point producing D-man with one year left at $5.625 million on his contract.
Kaberle is still under contract for another 2 seasons past the current one, at the reasonable price of $4.25 million a year. He would be a more valuable asset than Campbell or Schneider to most teams in the hunt for a puck moving, offensive D-man. The Leafs should easily be able to garner a first rounder plus a top prospect or roster player in exchange for Kaberle’s services.
Kubina is still signed for another year beyond this one, and like Kaberle is still in the midst of a No Movement Clause. He will also be able to be moved during a window later this year, so he’s going to be with the team for the near future. His value would also be high in a trade, though likely not as high as Kaberle due to his age, and his higher contract hit over a shorter term.
Jonas Frogren was just brought in and is playing for less than a million dollars. At his price, his level of play will have to be pretty bad for him to not stick with the club.
Jeff Finger was just signed to a four year $3.5 million dollar deal by Fletcher, it’s virtually impossible that he will be moved in the immediate future.
Carlo Colaiacovo has all the tools to be a top 4 D man in the NHL. He has yet to put together an injury free season, but the Leafs likely hope he can hold things in one piece long enough to have a breakout year this season. His trade value due to his injury history would be rather low considering his potential. Don’t expect him to spend time in the minors, or to be traded. If he isn’t with the Leafs much this year it will likely again be due to injury.
Anton Stralman is one of the most highly touted young Leafs in the mix. He has loads of offensive skill, but still needs to polish his defensive game. He is likely seen as a future replacement for Kaberle on the top power play unit, with a heavier shot, and similar passing ability and vision. He’s a solid skater though he still occasionally makes bad decisions with the puck, though that is to be expected with his youth. The team brought his countryman Frogren, who played alongside him at the World Championships, in an effort to give him comfort and settle his game down a bit. Look for him to get more ice time as he improves defensively, and the Leafs groom him for bigger things down the line.
This brings us to the remaining contenders for top 6 minutes with the club: Ian White and Mike Van Ryn. Van Ryn is the more expensive option of the two, coming in at $2.9 million for this year and next against the salary cap. Ian White is only slotted to make $850,000 for the next two seasons. Van Ryn also has the edge in NHL experience with 326 games vs. White’s appearance in 169, goals with 27 to White’s 9, assists with 91 to White’s 44, and points per game with 0.36 vs. White’s 0.31. Van Ryn is larger, more physical defensively, and more capable on the point of the PP unit. He has logged big minutes in the past, and until he had wrist problems the past two years he would have been described as miles ahead of White on the depth chart of any club in the NHL.
Unfortunately, Van Ryn HAS had wrist problems, requiring surgery to both of them within the past 2 seasons. This has presented teams, now most specifically the Leafs, with a large amount of uncertainty in regards to his durability, and effectiveness as a shot from the point. He has looked reasonably healthy in the pre-season thus far, and if he continues to display no ill-effects, he is going to push White further off the radar.
The one factor working in White’s favour at this point is injuries. As an injury replacement, White is superior to Staffan Kronwall, Jamie Sifers, or *shudder* heaven forbid, that Petiot character that was flamed multiple times against the Blues the other night. If the Leafs continue to have issues in this regard, with respect to Finger, or sudden injuries to Van Ryn or Colaiacovo, expect White to stick around. If he begins to languish on the bench for a while though, he’ll be shipped out before too long as the Leafs can’t afford to waste a marketable asset in their effort to “speed up the rebuild”.
Yes that was a jab at Damien Cox. Let the rest of the readers know what you think is going to happen with the Leafs blue line.
Posted in Player Analysis, Stat Analysis
17 Responses to “White vs. Van Ryn”
By eyebleaf
on Oct 2, 2008
Honestly, I felt kind of bad for Petiot last night. He was God awful, and that’s the first time I saw any highlights of the guy.
White vs. Van Ryn is pretty much of a wash for me. Neither are great, both are decent, White’s got upside b/c he’s younger. Pick your poison.
By general borschevsky
on Oct 3, 2008
If we trade Kaberle it has to be for a HUGE return. Tomas is a really special hockey player, and he’s only ever played for the Leafs. He seems out of place now, but if/when we get good again, it would be a real shame if he wasn’t here. Another player with Kaberle’s qualities won’t just “come along”.
Do you think Ian White’s feeling the heat? I really hope he exceeds expectations and has a monster year. Put that in the same category as “I really hope the Leafs make the playoffs”.
By general borschevsky
on Oct 3, 2008
Oh ya. Van Ryn still workin’ the water bottle, eh?
By Marco
on Oct 3, 2008
I’d take Van Ryn over White.
By blurr1974
on Oct 3, 2008
I think White has plateaued. He’s about as good as he’s ever going to get, I’ve never seen any flashes of brilliance through him. Van Ryn isn’t much better, and he’s definitly not going to get any better. White’s only plus in my eyes is his cap hit, so long story short, I’m in the eyebleaf camp…pick your poinson.
By TeddyDupuis
on Oct 3, 2008
I’m troubled by the talk about trading Kaberle. If you took him out of the mix our defence would go from good to extremely average. Also, in 2-4 years when we are competitive again, we will be seeking a smooth, smart, puck moving defenceman to put us over the top. Kaberle is the kind of defenceman every team covets, and we have him and can keep him for relatively cheap compared to what he would command in the open market. It’s not worth trading him for a late 1st round draft pick and second line player.
As for White, I like him; but I’m not very impressed with his play. He is not the kind of player that helps you win a Stanley Cup. Van Ryn hasn’t impressed me much either, but he, Finger and Frogen all stand up much better in the defensive zone.
By Coach Dunbar
on Oct 3, 2008
Kaberle IMO is expendable. He brings offense but other than that I cant say he brings anything else. Over the summer when trade talk was swirling around Kubina, I was hoping that they would not trade him but rather Kaberle.
If Kaberle hit and played D as well as he could move the puck, ie pass since he has some no shoot clause or something, I would see his value and perceived by the fellow posters…but until then I would trade him in a heartbeat if I could.
By LeafFan
on Oct 3, 2008
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By Natedawg
on Oct 3, 2008
Whiter’s worth keeping. He hasn’t nearly reached his potential, and couild be a real asset on the PP. I think that Ian White could develop into one of the league’s top offensive defensemen.
By Mike
on Oct 3, 2008
Whiter ????? what is he your buddy you can call him by a nickname. Well I guess that explains your high opinion of him. He’s done like dinner.Not big or strong enough, which would be ok if he was in the right position. which unless you think trying to catch up on the 2 on 1 is good positioning, stick a fork in him
By Karina
on Oct 3, 2008
I gotta agree with Mike on this one… White has been burned so many times in the preseason already, his positioning is horrible, he can’t protect the front of the net, it just makes me angry to see him playing 20+ mins a night. I haven’t seen much of Van Ryn, but at least I don’t want to throw things when he’s on the ice.
By bkblades
on Oct 3, 2008
In the end, I don’t see either Van Ryn or White to remain with the Leafs at season’s end.
As an aside, to the commenter above who criticized Kaberle for not being a hitter, you do realize you’re bashing the guy for things he has never done in his career? Nik Lidstrom isn’t considered a big, bruising defenceman by any stretch of the imagination, but he’s considered to be the best defenceman in the world. Kaberle is on a tier below Lidstrom obviously, but his defensive coverage stems from his ability to move the puck out of the zone and make pinpoint passes.
If you feel Kaberle needs to be traded, fine. But talk of Kaberle being traded has nothing to do with his lack of physicality or shutdown defensive play (as if this quality is abundant in the NHL), but everything to do with value. Since the Flyers were rumoured to offer Carter and a first round pick last year, I tend to think Kaberle is much more valued than you’re admitting.
By Dan
on Oct 3, 2008
I Still think Whiter (wicked nickname…haha) would be good up front. He’s got some speed and can handle the puck fairly well. He also seems to make decent plays going to the net. It would be interesting to see him in that roll.
By Steve
on Oct 3, 2008
I will admit that White looked decent as a winger with Steen and Stajan against the Wings tonight.
It saves him from the trouble of having to clear the front of the net, and he can still drop back to the point on the PP. If they want to use him as a winger, I have no real problem with that.
By koopa kid
on Oct 4, 2008
yeah, all my anti-White goes away when he’s on forward.
By Coach Dunbar
on Oct 4, 2008
bkblades - You can’t be serious about comparing Lidstrom to Kaberle. Don’t get me wrong, Kaberle is a very good player, in fact I would say as a puck moving defenseman I would rank him very high but the fact remains that he is a defender and at that part of the job, he isn’t all that good or at least as much as some fans think - he has no shutdown qualities that is need in order for me to consider him in the same breath as Lidstrom, IMO.
By Steve
on Oct 4, 2008
Here’s a quality that most people forget when it comes to Kaberle. He hardly ever takes a penalty. A lot of those “shut down” defenders DO take a lot of penalties, and as a result they put their team in situations where they are a man down and give up short handed goals.
Kaberle deserves defensive points for clean play if nothing else. He’s under-rated defensively. He isn’t Chris Pronger or Adam Foote, but he’s a lot better than oh… Ian White?