Is Matt Stajan Paying People To Write This Stuff?
August 23rd, 2008 by SteveOk, so we know this much, if it were up to the media in and around Toronto, Matt Stajan’s “veteran savvy” would be leading him into the position of next Maple Leafs captain. Now Mike Zeisberger is in on the fix to replace Mats with Matt. I’m beginning to wonder who else is on the crazy pills. Hopefully not Cliff Fletcher.
We get it. The media loves the idea of the hometown boy, drafted and developed by the Leafs, driving the bus that you all seem to think is going nowhere. This of course, on the off chance that they (the press) are wrong, and that the Leafs might actually win a few games… so you can then give credit to the great leadership of the hometown hero. Of course, given that the Leafs are far more likely to fail this coming season, it makes more sense to trumpet the likelihood that is LEAST rational.
Actually check that, it’s not just the mass media, it’s bloggers too.
*I’d just like to comment on this one line from the above posting
“The on-ice stuff,is pretty impressive when you consider how much ice time Stajan gets.”
I’m pretty sure this is the most incorrect thing I’ve read in a Leafs blog in a while. Matt Stajan saw the 3rd most ice time of any player on the Leafs last season. The only skaters who saw MORE total ice time were Tomas Kaberle and Pavel Kubina. The only forwards to AVERAGE more ice time a game than Stajan were Antropov and Sundin. The myth that the kid “produces” in limited ice time has to stop. Here is a list of forwards on the Leafs last year that produced more points per 20 minutes of ice time at even strength than Stajan:
Sundin, Antropov, Blake, Ponikarovsky, Kilger, Steen, Bell, Gamache, Tucker, Devereaux, Pohl, and Tlusty. He doesn’t score with ANY regularity considering how much ice time he gets. I find it really annoying when people pretend he gets no opportunities on offense. He got more power play time last year than Steen did, and he produced LESS.
Sure, why not make a captain out of a player with 4 full seasons as a Toronto Maple Leaf, who in 314 games has a grand total of 56 goals and 127 points. Why NOT slot the guy into a leadership role when he’s managed to step up to the plate for 163 penalty minutes, with exactly 1 fight in his NHL career.
Matt Stajan is decent defensively. That isn’t all a captain should be. According to the scribing world of Toronto, he’s a leader in the dressing room and he says all the right things. Great. So we should be picking the captain of the hockey team because he’s the responsible, nice guy that relates well to the media.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that exactly the mindset people had with Paul Maurice? He didn’t find any success as an NHL coach, but everyone insisted he was a good one, despite a track record that displayed the opposite. They also kept going on about how great he was with the press, and how well he dealt with the media attention. That matters… but is that the main tool we want to evaluate the head coach or captain on?
When a team gets on the ice, it’s not really relating to the media that’s very important… it’s relating to the other team.
Just think about the following list, and where you would rank Matt Stajan on it. Then ask yourself if you REALLY think he should be captaining the Leafs.
Anaheim - Chris Pronger; Boston - Zdeno Chara; Calgary - Jarome Iginla; Carolina - Rod Brind’Amour; Chicago - Jonathan Toews; Columbus - Rick Nash; Dallas - Brendan Morrow; Detroit - Nik Lidstrom; Edmonton - Ethan Moreau; Montreal - Saku Koivu; Nashville - Jason Arnott; New Jersey - Jamie Langenbrunner; NY Islanders - Bill Guerin; Ottawa - Daniel Alfredsson; Phoenix - Shane Doan; Pittsburgh - Sidney Crosby; San Jose - Patrick Marleau; St. Louis - Eric Brewer; Washington - Chris Clark
Atlanta, Buffalo, Colorado, Florida, LA, Minnesota, NY Rangers, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay, Toronto, and Vancouver all currently have either a rotating captaincy, or a vacancy in the role. Considering some of the players on those teams, I would argue that there are other captains in the NHL that would suit the role more adequately than Stajan. I seriously don’t get the love in for Stajan at this point. He has a fair sight more to prove before people should hop on the hayride.
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20 Responses to “Is Matt Stajan Paying People To Write This Stuff?”
By Marco
on Aug 23, 2008
Your best (offensive) player doesn’t have to be your captain.
By Steve
on Aug 23, 2008
No, he doesn’t. You’re correct on that point. But my point would remain, Matt Stajan isn’t clearly the Leafs “best” anything. He might be their best penalty killer, but I don’t know if that qualifies him enough for me to want him as the captain.
By scotty
on Aug 23, 2008
Moore and Devereux are at the very least just as good as Stajan at overall penalty killing prowess. People talk about that time he blocked a shot like he does stuff like that all the time. He doesn’t. And now I think I’d pick newcomers Hagman and Mayers as a PK1 unit. So where does that leave Stajan?
Don’t get me wrong. I like Stajan for his contributions to the team and I think he’s a good guy. But to make him captain would probably start and end badly for him.
Is it such a big deal to not have a captain? Why not wait for a year, or two, or three for the organization to adjust to the post-Sundin era and see what player or players fill the “leadership void”? It’s not like they’re going to need someone to hoist the cup anytime soon.
By LeaferSutherland
on Aug 23, 2008
I’m with you big time on this one Steve.
If I had Stajan leading the team anywhere, it would be toward the trading block.
By Marco
on Aug 24, 2008
I agree that we should not have a captain until someone worthy of it emerges.
By outsidethecrease
on Aug 25, 2008
“But my point would remain, Matt Stajan isn’t clearly the Leafs “best” anything.”
Hey Steve, did you stop to consider he may be in fac tthe Leafs best leader?
The simple fact is that we don’t knwo what does on in the locker room. He may be the guy who stands up and gets in people’s faces when need be.
The only thing we do know is that Stajan is (more then most) always willing to stand up in front of the media, whehter it be after a tough loss or just at a cherity golf tournament.
We also know that he was the only one willing to stand up 3 seasons ago and take the responsibility as the team’s NHLPA rep. That says a lot about a kid at age 22.
Is Ethat Moreau a top line guy in Edmonton? Is Chris Clark the face of Washington?
Is Eric Brewer the grizzled old vet in St. Louis?
The answer to all three is no, they are not.
You’re right Stajan may not be the best player on the ice at anything for the leafs. But just for a second sit back and think, maybe, just maybe he might be the best charachter in the dressing room, the best leader amoung teammates. It may not be something that maifests itself on the ice but there is every posibility that Stajan is in fact the best option for the C.
By Steve
on Aug 25, 2008
Do you honestly think I spent the time writing an entire blog about my NOT thinking he should be the captain without considering whether or not he’s the Leafs best “leader”?? I considered it in quite a measured fashion, and I have yet to see any real evidence of him being a leader. I’m sick of the whole NHLPA rep thing being thrown out as justification. If you search for a list of player reps on the web, you’ll find it’s a pretty strange mix of names.
Now on to your mention of Chris Clark, Ethan Moreau, and Eric Brewer. They are interesting selections for comparison to Stajan. Frankly he’s not their equivalent though.
Clark was named captain of the Caps in 2006. He only joined the team in the 2005-06 season and in 170 games for Washington he has 55 goals and 47 assists for 102 points. He spent most of last season injured, but in 06-07, he was the 3rd highest point scorer, one of three 30 goal scorers, and the top Right Winger on the team. He also managed to score 30 goals on only 164 shots, for an 18.3% shooting percentage.
At the time of his naming, he was the BEST veteran player on the team. Ovechkin and Semin were both in only their 2nd season, and considering Clark was part of the Calgary Flames run to the Stanley Cup finals in 03-04, his leadership and grit were fairly obvious to those involved.
As for Eric Brewer, he was named the captain in February of 2008. You don’t think of him as a grizzled veteran, but he’s now completed 9 seasons in the NHL. I’m pretty sure that gives him over double the number of seasons that Matt Stajan has played. He is now considered one of the best two way defenders in the league.
Consider the fact that he has averaged 25 points in every season he has played since 2000-01, excluding his injury shortened 05-06 campaign. He has never taken over 100 PIM’s in a season so he doesn’t take many stupid penalties as a defender.
He also has far more international experience than Stajan does. He played for the Canadian U-17’s, the Junior Nats, the mens World Championship team in 2001, then he was named one of the top 6 D for the Canadian Olympic team in 2002 at Salt Lake City, scoring 2 goals, and helping Canada win it’s first gold medal in ice hockey in 50 years. He actually played an integral part on 4 consecutive World Championship teams from 2001 through 2004, scoring many important goals. Then he was named to the Canadian World Cup entry in 2004, scored the winning goal against the Czech’s in the semi-finals, and then helped Canada win the tournament. He was again named to the preliminary roster for the Olympic team, but was not selected for 2006. He again resumed his international career in 2007 at the World Championships, and was the only permanent alternate captain on the team (Shane Doan was the captain).
Oh and one other thing? Brewer has played in an NHL All-Star game. I’m pretty sure 9 years in the NHL, an All-Star game appearance, a World Junior gold medal, an Olympic gold medal, a World Cup, and 3 World Championship gold medals are a fair sight more than Stajan has managed. He might not be grizzled but the guy is a winner, and he’s been considered a “leader” on the ice for years. I’d take him over Matt Stajan as the captain of the Leafs in a heartbeat.
Ethan Moreau is actually a bit different… since he is OBVIOUSLY the grizzled veteran that warrants consideration as a leader. He was taken 14th overall in the 1994 draft by the Blackhawks. He was named captain of the Oilers in October of 2007. At the time he was entering his 12th season in the NHL. He has one 20 goal season in his NHL career, but he is considered one of the better checking forwards in the NHL. He was also a large part of the Oilers team that made the run to the Stanley Cup finals in 2005-06.
Here’s a quote from Craig MacTavish at the time of Moreau’s selection as captain:
You’re right. I don’t know if Stajan is the only one standing up to say things in the dressing room. What I do know is, he’s only played 4 years in the league, and he hasn’t really been a leader for the team in any of them on the ice. He shows the occasional flash of it, but it’s amazingly inconsistent. He doesn’t lead the way physically, he doesn’t lead the way on the score sheet, and he doesn’t have the experience to command respect in the room.
I don’t care if he gets in people’s faces, the question is whether or not it means anything when he does.
He’s not comparable to any of the 3 players you mentioned, and you mentioned them specifically because you think he’s at least their equivalent. Unfortunately he’s pretty far from that. He’s less integral to the team than Clark or Brewer happen to be. He has less experience than all 3 of them. He’s played in 3 NHL playoff games in his career. It’s nice that he’s the NHLPA player rep for the team, but I don’t think that qualifies players for captaincy. Sean Avery was a player rep in LA, I don’t think anyone would name him captain. Kyle Wellwood was the Leafs alternate rep, but that didn’t seem to mean much when the team shipped him out of town for a lack of drive to ensure he would be able to play.
Here’s an interesting one for you: Mark Bell was the player rep during his ONE season in San Jose, and Jamal Mayers was the player rep in St. Louis. I guess that means they’re just as qualified as Stajan to be captain of the Leafs for that reason? Toss in the fact that they’ve been in the league for a while, and Bell has way more points, and has faced more adversity, and you might think he should be the captain.
That being said, the NHLPA is in on the campaign to name Stajan the team leader now. This is a farce frankly. The kid SHOULDN’T be the captain. He might end up being the captain, but I really don’t think he’s earned it.
By Doug
on Aug 25, 2008
I’m dumbfounded that Stajan is garnering this level of respect. Yes he wears his heart on his sleave for the Leafs, but so do I. That in it self may only prove poor judgement. As far as his ability as a hockey player. He wouldn’t even have a roster spot on a good team. Stajan has some developing to do; just to become a solid NHLer. As for leadership skills?
Carlton the Bear has had more presence than Matt. I like Matt Stajan. He’s a really good person, but he is not captain material.
By outsidethecrease
on Aug 25, 2008
“Carlton the Bear has had more presence than Matt”
Again, what are you basing this on?
Are you in the Leafs dressing room before and after games?
How can anyone who is not in the dressing room possibly know the pressence a player has or doesn’t have amoung teammmate? The answer is they can’t.
Again Steve, the fact that you keep throwing point total into your argument gives it less weight to me. Since when has point total been a determining factor in how a player leads?
It doesn’t.
Now am I saying Stajan should be captain? No. But if they do a rotating system, a la Buffalo and Minny, then he should definitely be one of the guys given an opportunity.
By Steve
on Aug 25, 2008
I’m throwing point totals in there as an example of production that is measurable. Very few people would argue that putting up points isn’t an indicator of contribution and leadership. There are also very few Captains in the NHL that do not contribute on the score sheet in a meaningful way, either through preventing or scoring goals.
Alex Steen played better defensively, and offensively last year than Matt Stajan. I also think he will be a bigger cog going forwards. I don’t think he should be named Captain, but I think he would be a better choice than Stajan.
Also, based on your “we can’t know what goes on in the dressing room” argument, then ANY player could be saying things to his teammates and should thus be named captain. You can’t base your selection on a LACK of information. Basically you’re telling me I shouldn’t exclude Stajan because of his lack of discernible contribution in an above average way to the success of the team… because I don’t know what goes on behind closed doors. You’re right, I don’t. Since I don’t, then all I have to go on is what I see on the ice, and personally I think what happens on the ice is far more important. Since we don’t know what goes on behind closed doors, in that regard, every player should be considered equal. Everyone that discounts Kaberle as a quiet leader doesn’t know that he isn’t yelling and screaming at people in the dressing room (I sincerely doubt that he is doing that, but you must see my point). Since we don’t KNOW what Kaberle is like in the dressing room, I’m going to have to say he has far more points in his favour towards being captain than Stajan does. Thus I think he should be made captain.
Also, if Stajan is so damn integral to the make up of the room, why do articles keep mentioning his being the NHLPA player rep? As I said in my last comment, Jamal Mayers and Mark Bell were both also player reps… so shouldn’t they earn some consideration also?
By outsidethecrease
on Aug 25, 2008
“Everyone that discounts Kaberle as a quiet leader doesn’t know that he isn’t yelling and screaming at people in the dressing room (I sincerely doubt that he is doing that, but you must see my point). Since we don’t KNOW what Kaberle is like in the dressing room, I’m going to have to say he has far more points in his favour towards being captain than Stajan does. Thus I think he should be made captain.”
I’m not saying that’s not true, I’m simply saying that since we don’t know what goes on in the room, we have to trust that the people who do know are going to make the right decision.
If the team (or coaches) select Stajan as a captain, there must be a reason for it. So since you don’t know what those reasons are you shouldn’t neccessarily discount him.
If the player is chosen captain, you might not agree with it, but there must be a reason for it, right? So why not accept that the people close to the situation have a better grasp on it then you do. If the team considers him a good choice I’d say they’re doing it based on better reasons then the ones you are using to call him a bad choice.
By Steve
on Aug 25, 2008
I suppose that’s fine, but my posting has nothing to do with the people actually making the choice. It’s obvious that I’m rebutting against the love-in that the Toronto Media are having with Matt Stajan.
If the Leafs brass decide to make the kid the Captain, then I’ll discuss that when it happens. So far they’ve given zero indication they plan on doing something like that. Every postulation that has Stajan being a captain for the Leafs has been tossed out by a talking head from the media (i.e. Damien Cox, Howard Berger, Mike Zeisberger).
If anything, I think it quite likely the Leafs are tossing the idea out to see how the fans respond.
I’m entitled to my opinions on why Stajan shouldn’t be captain, and I don’t think I should just automatically defer to the judgement of those in charge just because they are in charge. That would be sort of blind of me. As for the reasoning and logic, why exactly should I assume there are “better reasons”? If there are a bunch of great reasons for him to be the captain that actually mean something on the ice, wouldn’t we be made aware of them in all these articles about Stajan being the captain?
By Mike
on Aug 25, 2008
The Media is blinded by the few games Stajan acually produces. A Captain may not need to be the top scorer but at least be consistent. Last year Stajan collected 17 pts in 7 multiple point games ( The games the media drools over) then Stajan also collected 16 pts in the other 75 games.I know what your thinking all the points came after Sundin was hurt and he got more ice time ( MYTH) wrong.The only thing Stajan leads is the list of players who haven’t scored in last 10 games and no points in 8. He also led the leaf forwards in ave ice time on the PK the worst PK in the league.
By outsidethecrease
on Aug 25, 2008
Actually Mike second worst PK in the league, the Kings were the worst, haha.
And he scored in the 7th to last game so both of your stats concerning that are wrong too.
I don’t understand why people make things up that are so easily proven wrong with a quick search.
By Mike
on Aug 25, 2008
what does scoring in the 7th to last game of the season have to do with my stats. He scored 17 pts in 7 random games throughout the season and only collected 16 in the other 75
By outsidethecrease
on Aug 25, 2008
“The only thing Stajan leads is the list of players who haven’t scored in last 10 games and no points in 8″
By Mike
on Aug 25, 2008
that is just random numbers with no specific time in the season. He is always in a slump is my point. 7 pts first 7 games 6 in the next 21. Go ahead confirm it
By outsidethecrease
on Aug 25, 2008
I didn’t know you were using random numbers, I thought you were speaking of him not scoring in the last 10 and no points in the last 8.
My bad
By Mike
on Aug 25, 2008
Go Leafs Go
By SilverSeven
on Aug 28, 2008
“outsidethecrease” is actually a guy named Marc Sutton, he trolls from blog to blog just to pick arguments, just ignore him. It doesn’t matter what you say, he’ll just take a contrarian opinion, he has no perspective outside of the opposite perspective of the moment. I’ve actually left sites just to get away from the guys incessant rantings and meaningless argumentative personality. He’s also on here as “Marc”
Steve, while I often disagree with your conclusions, they are always at least well founded, and I respect that.