Goals For vs. Goals Against and Next Years Leafs

August 12th, 2008 by Steve

Ok, I’ve been punching numbers for most of the night in response to some comments left on my last posting. I ended up writing 3 long winded responses, and instead I’ve decided to summarize my findings in another blog posting. So here goes.

What’s going to happen to the Leafs offense minus Mats Sundin, and should the team improve will that tarnish Sundin’s Legacy?

I don’t think that it should. The guy is the top scorer in Leafs history. That alone should cement his legacy. He is one of the most consistent producers ever to play the game of Hockey. He has been one of the top players in the game for almost 15 years. He is considered one of the greatest (if not THE greatest) player to ever make it to the NHL as far as Swedes are concerned, and I don’t know why Torontonians should dispute that.

He’s an amazing talent, he just never had the right pieces of the puzzle to play with in Toronto. By that, I don’t mean he had the wrong “line mates”. I think the Leafs lacked a true 2nd line led by other high scorers ALSO in their prime, while he was in his prime. Yes there were other good players to play with Sundin, but very few would be able to argue that the Leafs had a really solid 2nd scoring line when they were near the top of the standings.

I think the best we managed was Yanic Perreault, Sergei Berezin, and whoever played on their other wing on any given night. That’s kind of sad.

As far as the Leafs scoring goals goes, you can’t assume there will be zero improvement from players like Stajan, Steen, Kulemin, Ponikarovsky, and Antropov as they are given more minutes and opportunity. Perhaps half of them step forwards. Even if the other half don’t, and remain at about the same level, or take minor steps back, it’s not like the world will cave in.

It’s very rare that a team drops it’s production by like 30-40 goals just because 1 player is taken out of the equation. In this case I seriously doubt that will be the result.

Philadelphia went from scoring 263 goals in 2005-06 to scoring 213 in 2006-07. Peter Forsberg didn’t disappear from the face of the earth, he just went from playing 60 games to playing 40 games; Jeff Carter and Mike Richards went from scoring a combined 34 goals to a combined 24 goals; Joni Pitkanen went from 13 goals to 4 goals; Knuble went from 34 goals to 24 goals; Gagne went from 47 goals to 41 goals. Basically they were the same team they just had a REALLY crappy year. It’s not that one player screwed it all up, they just collectively shat the bed.

I don’t honestly expect that to happen to the Leafs just because Sundin is gone. They aren’t complete idiots incapable of scoring a goal. Ten players on the team scored over 10 goals last year. Three of those players are now gone. Sundin, Tucker, Kilger had a combined 60 goals amongst the 3 of them. That being said, they’ve been replaced by Hagman, Kulemin, and Grabovski. If you assume Hagman will score 20, and Kulemin and Grabovski each get 10 apiece or so - which I think is a major underestimate but whatever - You’re only down 20 goals total. If you don’t think you can pick up 20 goals total from the improvements in the games of Tlusty, Steen, Stajan, Ponikarovsky, Antropov, Blake, and Moore… then the Leafs might be screwed. I personally think those players have 20 extra goals between them. That’s only an extra 3 goals apiece. I think Steen and Stajan should be able to hit 20 goals. I think Ponikarovsky should be able to hit 25. I think Blake should be able to hit 25. I think Moore should be able to hit 10.

Now you KNOW they aren’t all going to work out that way, but I think when all is said and done, we can expect the Leafs to score at least 220 goals. Remember that Wilson’s teams typically have top 10 power play ranking, functioning around 18% usually. That might tail off to about 17% or so depending on the talent the Leafs have on the ice, but that would still have them in the top half of the league. We can assume they’ll get around 30 power play goals during the regular season as a team, which is exactly how many they had last season.

The Leafs scored 228 goals in total last year, but 220 is way ahead of the Islanders 194 last season, and the Rangers, and the Devils, and the Blue Jackets, and the Blues, and the Bruins, and the Canucks, and the Ducks, and Florida, Atlanta, and Phoenix. It’s just behind San Jose and Tampa Bay’s totals from last year of 222, and 223 respectively. It would have put the Leafs 19th in league scoring, which is not amazing, but it’s pretty far from the worst in the NHL.

How will Ron Wilson affect the Leafs goals against?

On a superficial level, we can figure a bit of this out based on how Wilson’s teams have performed typically in the past. The Sharks had the best PK in the league last year at 85.8% during the regular season. Wilson’s teams are often some of the best penalty killers in the NHL.

Assuming Wilson can improve on the Leafs standing in that category as 29th in the NHL at 78.1%, I think inroads in goals against can be made. If he improves it to just the league average, of roughly 82% or 83%, the goals given up by the Leafs on the PK would have gone from 77 to 62 or so.

That’s a reduction of 15 goals against, which would bring their total down from 256 to 241. That would have improved them from 27th to 24th in the NHL last season.

Also of relevance is the fact that Ron Wilson tends to have disciplined teams that are rarely Short Handed in comparison to the rest of the league. Last season the Sharks had the 3rd fewest short handed situations in the league at 310. In 2006-07 his team was again 3rd best in avoiding short handed situations at 330. In 2005-06 his team was AGAIN 3rd best in the NHL in avoiding short handed situations at 399. In 2003-04 his team was 7th best in the NHL with 319 short handed situations. In his first year in San Jose in 2002-03 the team was middle of the pack with 358 short handed situations.

If we assume there will be a period of adjustment for Wilson and the Leafs, we could guess that he will have the Leafs somewhere between where they finished in the middle of the league in short handed situations last year, and the top 3 or 4 teams as he is used to. That means, based on last years penalty stats from the NHL, the Leafs should end up with around 330 short handed situations. With an 82% PK and 330 short handed situations, that puts the Leafs at 60 goals against while short handed. Which improves their standing by 2 more goals against.

A 17 goal reduction in total goals against would put them in 23rd in the NHL.

That’s WITHOUT the adjustments I should be making for the crappy play of Andrew Raycroft, but I’ll get to that.

How much of a change will we see as a result of Joseph replacing Raycroft as the backup net minder?

If we take Raycroft’s atrocious record of 63 goals against on 509 shots, and exchange it for the play of CuJo, we again see a drop in goals against.

If we assume - just for the sake of argument that Joseph will have numbers that match his WORST statistical season thus far in the NHL (his first season in Edmonton), we can pretend he’ll end up with an .886 save percentage. That means he would have given up 5Curtis Joseph8 goals on those 509 shots. Frankly I doubt he’ll be that bad, and a more realistic estimate, based on his play last season, and his comfort in Toronto, would be a number slightly below his career save percentage of .907. Let’s go with .900, just for the sake of being reasonable. With a .900 save percentage, he would have let in 51 goals. That’s a reduction of another 12 goals against for the Leafs off of last season’s numbers.

If you take away 17 goals due to improved penalty killing, or take off 12 due to improved back up netminding… well you get the picture. The Leafs should be able to shave off around 20 goals or so in a fairly predictable fashion. Obviously Raycroft was part of the reason for the number of Power Play goals scored against the Leafs, as 19 of the 63 goals he gave up came on the PK. That’s 30% of his goals against, and a quarter of the goals the Leafs gave up on the PK. 55 of Toskala’s 165 goals against were PP markers, which again represents a 3rd of his total. If we allocate 1/4 of the 17 goals prevented to an improvement for Raycroft, that means he’d have let in 15 goals on the PK rather than 19. Toskala would have let in 42 goals on the PK rather than 55. Even if Raycroft let in 4 fewer on the PK, that still means he gave up 59 goals. So Joseph would have presented another 8 goal improvement in Goals Against, just based on SV% numbers.

So assuming Toskala’s goals against drops by 13, and Joseph gives up around 51 goals total… that puts the Leafs at about 231 goals against. That would have ranked them around Chicago and Washington in 19th or 20th in the NHL. Not outstanding, but not a bottom feeder either.

Where does that leave the Leafs overall in the standings?

If they can score 220 and let in 230, that should put them on pace for a roughly .476 win percentage (using a modified pythagorean model *pythagenpuck). Their win percentage last season was .439 with 36 wins. Last season, Buffalo and Vancouver won 39 games (.476 win percentage) and ended up with 90 and 88 points respectively, 3 or 4 points out of a playoff spot, and 18th or 19th overall in the NHL. If the Leafs end up around there this coming season I wouldn’t be surprised.

Look forward to a 1st round draft pick somewhere between 10th and 15th next season Leaf fans!

If Howard Berger and Damien Cox annoy you by blasting the Leafs for repeating the same mistakes as always when they end up just missing the playoffs YET AGAIN, you should feel free to refer back to this article and make note of whether the Leafs maintained their goal production and improved their goals against. It might not look like progress, but it is. The key things to keep an eye on this season will be goal production for the entire team (particularly the younger players, and yes 2 or 3 more goals is still an improvement), and penalty killing. If the team can improve it’s penalty killing and get better backup goal tending they should be well on their way to moving forwards.

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  1. 13 Responses to “Goals For vs. Goals Against and Next Years Leafs”

  2. By general borschevsky CANADA on Aug 13, 2008

    Nice post. I think your projection for goal-scoring is a bit high for Pony and Blake without someone else’s game really blossoming. Maybe if Antro explodes for 40+? Really like the idea of the penalty-killing improving. I think that gives a team a mental-edge and makes a huge difference.

  3. By Gerald Norton CANADA on Aug 13, 2008

    The main issue is one of synergy. With Sundin gone, greater defensive pressure will be placed upon the other players, players that under less pressure were not overly productive. When you add the defensive system, and mind-set of Wilson into this equation, goalscoring opportunity worsens. Elite players have an effect far beyond their individual statistics, and if this caliber of player is not replaced, it will have an non linear negative impact on scoring. The Eastern conference teams you listed, that made the play-offs, have one significant advantage over the Leafs, defense. Without a paradigm shift in this department any decrease in scoring will have a major impact on points, as Toronto was already a negative plus minus team. Total GF minus Total GA is still the leading indicator of team success, and when starting from a poor position, anything but dramatic improvement in defense, even with offense remaining equal, will not result in marked win% improvement. If the offense slides, even just a little (and it may slide substantially), the improvement in defense must keep pace, over and above status quo improvement. This is a Herculean challange, that simply does not look possible by the current roster.

  4. By Mike CANADA on Aug 13, 2008

    PK is the only focus this team should have. It is the difference maker.It’s not just how many goals but when. Here is a stat for you to check on. What was the Leafs record under Maurice when the Leafs got the first PP goal and when the opposition got the first PP goal. It seemed to me and I have no proof of this but how many times did the Leafs out play an opponent for the first 15 minutes outshooting them 3-1 but a closer look shows the Leafs 0-3 on the PP and then with their first PP of the game the other team makes it 1-0. With the first goal being so important this would drive me nuts.Its all about momentum.If as you suggest Wilson can show an improvement not just in the kill but how many lazy hooks Antropov takes then playoffs will be closer than Tavares.

  5. By Steve CANADA on Aug 13, 2008

    Gerald, one main issue with your point about losing Sundin. The numbers don’t back it up. Over the past 3 seasons, Sundin has missed 27 games due to injury. The Leafs have scored an average of 3.44 Goals per game over those 27 games. The highest Goals per game average in the NHL last season was 3.15. Even if you only focus on last season, the Leafs goals for average without Sundin was 2.75, which would have placed them 15th in the NHL. Which last I checked means they would be “average” on offense.

    Despite what you WANT to think about the Leafs lacking any offensive production, I can’t really see any evidence of it. You also make reference to players who haven’t “stepped up” in the past, when that is blatantly untrue. Last season Alex Steen had a 5 game point scoring streak coincide with the first half of the 8 game stretch Sundin missed due to injury. Alexei Ponikarovsky had a 6 game point streak over the exact same period of time. Obviously those 2 players “stepped up” in that situation.

    In 2006-07 Sundin missed a stretch in November due to a broken wrist. Between November 9th and 24th he was out of the lineup. Alexei Ponikarovsky again had a 4 point scoring streak (in which he scored 8 points) coincide with the occurrence of Sundin going down, he had 5 points during the stretch Mats was absent. Similarly, over that 7 game stretch, Nik Antropov scored 7 points without Sundin.

    In 2006-07 Kaberle had a stretch of 10 points in the 7 games Sundin missed. Last season, when Sundin missed 8 games at the end of March and beginning of April, Pavel Kubina scored 7 points in the games Sundin missed. He also had an 8 game point scoring streak that covered the majority of Sundin’s abscence.

    The idea that no players on the Leafs managed to score when Sundin is out of the line up is patently false. I also fail to see how the defensive aspect will constrain players like Steen, Ponikarovsky, and Antropov, who are all consistent defensive performers to begin with. Kubina and Kaberle are also decent in their own end and aside from Kubina taking a lot of dumb penalties, I don’t see that being a huge issue.

    I fail to see why the task is so “herculean” when it’s laid out pretty simplistically in my blog. The replacement of Raycroft with Joseph alone would likely have shaven almost 8 goals off their total goals against. Throw in the fact that their PK was horrid under Maurice, and Wilson regularly has some of the top PK squads in the league, and I fail to see why it’s so unlikely. They also are adding solid defenders in Hagman, Mayers, Kulemin, Frogen, and Finger. I really don’t see this being as big an issue as you are making it out to be.

    Let me know if you come up with any other explanations for why the Leafs are going to suck next year.

  6. By Gerald Norton CANADA on Aug 13, 2008

    Teams are well known for circling the wagons for short periods of time, as well as opposition taking a team lightly when they are without top caliber players. I never once said anything about players not “stepping up” in the past, I said they were not particularly productive when not laying against top defensive pairings. Look, if they are as good as you think they will be, whay haven;t they been in the past? If Sundin was not as important as you think, why would any team want him? It seems to me you’re looking for reasons to prove the unlikely, even if they do not pass the smell test. Time will tell.

  7. By Gerald Norton CANADA on Aug 13, 2008

    Oh, the Leafs are going to “suck” because they are entirely lacking in top tier offensive talent, their goaltending is average, and the players they’ve brought in are marginally better (if any better) then those they shipped out. I guess it’s just me and the other vast majority of the sports world that are missing the blatantly obvious that you’ve stumbled upon, our bad.

  8. By Steve CANADA on Aug 13, 2008

    Ok you’re starting to not make much sense.

    Here are the Leafs forwards that faced the highest quality competition over the course of last season (in ORDER). (Quality value in brackets - courtesy http://www.behindthenet.ca)

    1. Nik Antropov (0.10)
    2. Mats Sundin (0.08)
    3. Alex Steen (0.07)
    4. Matt Stajan (0.05)
    5. Alexei Ponikarovsky (0.04)
    6. Jason Blake (0.03)

    So which of those guys was playing minutes against “weaker” competition? Every single one of them faced ABOVE average competition on a regular basis.

    Jamal Mayers (0.06) also regularly faced very difficult competition while playing for the St. Louis Blues last season.

    Lets just compare those numbers with some players I’m sure you’re more inclined to approve of:

    Daniel Alfredsson (0.08)
    Dany Heatley (0.06)
    Jason Spezza (0.05)
    Mike Fisher (0.05)
    Antoine Vermette (0.03)

    So Antropov faced tougher competition than all the top forwards on the Sens. Steen faced tougher competition than Heatley and Spezza and Fisher, and Stajan was equivalent to Spezza and Fisher. Guess they played a bunch of weak sisters for the most part?

    Here’s another set of numbers for you to chew on. Goals per 60 minutes of Ice Time. Sundin led the Leafs with 1.22. Ponikarovsky was second at 1.21…. pretty darn close.

    Points per 60 minutes of ice time? Sundin led again at 2.74, but Antropov wasn’t too shabby at 2.33, followed by Blake at 2.05, and Ponikarovsky at 1.91.

    Antropov scored more points every 60 minutes than either Corey Perry (2.25) or Ryan Getzlaf (2.26) last season. Ponikarovsky scored more goals every 60 minutes than either of those two also (Getzlaf 0.88, Perry 1.10)

    Basically if some of these guys get more serious time on the power play and more regular shifts they should be fine.

    As for the fact that I think the Leafs will finish with around 88 or 90 points, it’s not like I’m saying they’re going to outdo the rest of the NHL by finishing OUT OF THE FREAKING PLAYOFFS.

    Cripes, it’s like you think I’m saying they’re going to set the world afire with their scoring prowess. I’m saying they’ll score 220 and let in 230… ROUGHLY. That isn’t freaking impressive, but it’s not as bad as many are predicting either.

    As for the “vast majority of the sports world” - that’s just an idiotic statement. Since when is mass opinion predominantly right? I guess because the vast majority of the planet thought the earth was flat at one point that it MUST be true… I guess the entire world just “missed” the blatantly obvious that we’ve been trolling around - yes you are bad.

  9. By Steve CANADA on Aug 13, 2008

    Just out of interest, lets see how Ottawa did without their best player last year - Daniel Alfredsson.

    During the 12 games he missed last year, the Sens averaged 2.17 goals for, and gave up 3.17 goals against. I guess they didn’t circle them wagons so good? Heatley was gone for 5 of the 12, but Spezza was there for all of them. The record in games missing Alfie was 3-8-1… not so great.

    Leafs record in games missing Sundin? 3-4-1, not much better, but still closer to .500.

    Either way… this is fun, but before it degenerates further I’m going to have to insist you doth protest too much.

  10. By Gerald Norton CANADA on Aug 14, 2008

    You’re right Steve, Toronto has all the firepower they need to replace Sundin. Sheesh.

  11. By scotty CANADA on Aug 14, 2008

    I think Steve has some valid points and I agree that some Leafs will surprise the “experts” out there. But then, some players may sort of disappear with the knowledge that Sundin is gone and they have to carry the weight. Looking at stats when Sundin was injured do give signs for optimism, but Totonto hasn’t had a season without Sundin around for at least 65 games in over a decade so it’s tough to say for sure how the team, players, coaches, fans, etc will respond. There are players who will get quite a surge in PP time and for some it will help, but for others it may destroy their confidence. Cliff has made so many changes that predicting the outcome of the product is pretty tough (though it is fun to try, I’ll admit, and I’ve been doing it since June).
    One thing I noticed you didn’t mention Steve is the blasted shootout. Many a points were lost by the Leafs since its inception and the stats from last year are pretty ugly. I don’t know if any of the new blood can improve it much, though I doubt we could get much worse. I don’t know what the big deal about going home with a tie is, but Bettman figures giving points to individuals for a team game is a fair idea. Sundin was 50%, which is apparently good for the shootout, but nobody else came close and an extra goal here and there may have been enough to surge into the post-season, especially two years ago. Since the Leafs want to play a more defensive style, there may be more one goals games and even more shootout decisions. I guess we could hope that Kulemin could be one piece of the puzzle there, but again, it’s hard to know until the season starts.

  12. By Steve CANADA on Aug 14, 2008

    Ok, on the Shootout front, the players we’re losing are Sundin, Wellwood, Tucker, McCabe and Raycroft.

    Sundin was a decent contributor, but not “amazing” at it. Kaberle actually contributed more last season than he did. After that virtually nobody stepped up. Steen and Antropov contributed, but not in a major way.

    From a goaltending perspective, Raycroft had less value than Toskala, so that isn’t really a major loss.

    Patrick Kane was the best “shooter” in the NHL in the Shootout last season, but what might shock you a bit is that Kaberle was equivalent to Jason Spezza, Pavel Datsyuk, Brad Boyes, and Brendan Shanahan last season.

    I would think Grabovski, Kulemin, and Tlusty would all get a shot at the shootout next season, but honestly I don’t know if any of them will approach Sundin’s level of success.

    In San Jose, Ron Wilson had 3 players who were better than anyone on the Leafs in Pavelski, Roenick, and Marleau. I doubt coaching has a lot to do with it, but perhaps with his dedication to video analysis, he can provide some insight into how to beat some of the top goalies.

    I think Kulemin could be a find in the shoot out though based on the number of breakaway goals he seems to score in those YouTube videos… I know they’re YouTube videos but some of them are pretty sweet from a moves perspective, and he obviously has a great wrist shot.

  13. By Marco CANADA on Aug 16, 2008

    Have to take into account that Wilson’s defensive system will hinder a lot of the forwards goal output overall, Hagman and Kulemin will thrive under this as Dallas and Metallurg Magnitorogsk played the trap. So I think Wilson will love these guys, strong on both sides of the puck..

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