What Can The Leafs Deal That Vancouver Will Consider?
June 18th, 2008 by Steve
Ok, I’m throwing this out there as an idea, and I don’t really know how likely or popular it would be with Leafs management, but here goes. Yesterday the GM of the Vancouver Canucks publicly stated he would deal the Canucks first round pick, at 10th overall, for a top 6 forward. While I am a big fan of Antropov and Ponikarovsky, I am wondering what the Leafs could dangle in front of Gillis in order to secure another first rounder.
If all it would take is a top 6 forward, the Leafs have some solid players who would work on either of the top 2 lines. If I was the Leafs I would seriously consider dealing Mark Bell, Kyle Wellwood, and/or Ian White in exchange for Vancouver’s 10th pick. If the Canucks were willing to take Jason Blake off our hands for the 10th pick straight up, I’d make that trade too. It frees up cap space and gives the Leafs 2 picks in a VERY deep draft.
The Leafs need to build for the future, Vancouver needs to build for NOW. They have a number 1 netminder - possibly the best goalie in the game right now - in Luongo. They have a very solid Defensive group when healthy, but what they lack is offensive punch.
Jason Blake didn’t do himself any favours at the end of last season when he griped about the situation in Toronto. While I understand that he wants another shot, he also happens to be one of the few Leafs who doesn’t have a no movement clause. Why not ship him and get a younger player on the rise. Just think, if the Leafs could add 2 of Mikkel Boedker, Cody Hodgson, Colin Wilson, or Nikita Filitov, how much more “stocked” our cupboard would suddenly be. Add in the idea of Tyler Myers and/or Luke Schenn and suddenly the Leafs would have one of the best crops of young talent in the NHL.
2 of those 6 players are guaranteed to be available at 7 and 10, considering that the top 4 are listed as Stamkos, Doughty, Bagosian, and Pieterangelo. Those are the top 10 ranked players overall… so even if someone takes a flyer on somebody off the board, that just increases the Leafs chances of building for the future. This is how the Leafs are going to have to BUILD people.
As I mentioned earlier, I’m an Antropov and Ponikarovsky fan, but for the 10th pick overall in this draft, I’d trade Ponikarovsky straight up, and I’d give up Antropov if we got another pick and a prospect in return.
That’s just how I see it, let me know your thoughts.
Posted in Prospects
13 Responses to “What Can The Leafs Deal That Vancouver Will Consider?”
By scotty on Jun 19, 2008
If vancouver is looking for size to work the boards along with the Sedins (which is one of their strengths, I’m told) then having Poni or Antropov to work with should work, in theory. I doubt Wellwood would fetch much return since he had an off year last season with injuries and some listless play. I think he could rebound so the Leafs should maybe hold onto him for cheap (and he’s great on the PP). It always seems like people who talk trade with the Leafs want Steen and the Leafs have been reluctant to make that trade. If the Canucks want Steen, then a 10th overall pick is not enough, in my mind, to make it fair.
Yes Blake is probably too hard to move, even if he had scored another 30+ goals last year simply because of the length of his contract and his age.
The Cancuks are probably losing Naslund and Morrison and they need someone to fill the void (and I doubt Hossa or Malone would consider making the move to the West and there’s not much left of the UFA pool after them) so perhaps they’d do an Antropov deal if the offer was there. Perhaps they’d throw in their 2nd round pick as well.
But I agree that if the Leafs can get two picks in the top ten they should do it for the talent in this year’s draft.
By David Johnson on Jun 19, 2008
Antopov might generate some interest on the part of the Canucks but it might cost more than just him to get the 10th overall pick and I suspect they would only do the deal if they could get Antropov signed to a long term deal (he’ll be a UFA next summer otherwise).
If I had to guess they would ask for Steen but I would only make that deal if the Leafs were able to get Filatov at 7 and a top defenseman with the Canucks pick.
I doubt the Canucks, or anyone (save maybe the Islanders) have much interest in Blake. Tucker might be of more interest to them but Tucker seems certain not to waive his no movement clause.
By Marc on Jun 19, 2008
Antropov, really? He did have a good year and has matured a lot as a player. But he is sooo prone to injuries. I doubt he has many good years left, and “good years” may mean long stretches healing.
If the Canucks want him and another forward for a first rounder the Leafs should jump at the offer.
By Down Goes Brown on Jun 19, 2008
Hey Steve…
Normally I think you’re spot on with your analysis but in this case I think you’re way off on the value of the 10th pick, and the players the Leafs could offer.
Wellwood has little value right now, certainly not enough to enter into a discussion about a top ten pick. White has some, but would need to be part of a bigger package.
Bell probably has negative value right now, due to the combination of production and salary hit that he brings. I don’t think we could give him away for free right now. Blake may also fall into that category.
If Fletcher could get the Canucks pick for Jason Blake, or even for a package built around Blake, then we should forget about Burke and hire Cliff full-time because he’d be back in his 1992 Jedi mode.
By Steve on Jun 19, 2008
Sean, I think I may have worded it poorly when I wrote the posting. The idea was actually a package of players including Bell, Wellwood, and White… I’d give up all 3 in exchange for the 10th overall pick, but I honestly don’t think Vancouver would jump at that.
The posting was more an effort in brainstorming… which is why I also offered up the idea of Blake, Antropov, or Poni in the end.
By Marco on Jun 19, 2008
Poni AND Antropov might be able to do it.
By Steve on Jun 19, 2008
Antropov alone would do it… in fact Antropov would possibly garner the 10th overall pick AND a prospect or another pick.
Also it should be mentioned that Antropov, Ponikarovsky, Wellwood and White all had higher value in terms of Salary per point than any top line Vancouver Canuck.
If you consider that Taylor Pyatt played wing with the Sedins, and Alex Burrows and Mason Raymond were their other two young forwards, all 3 of those players scored a point for less than $42,000 each. Pyatt was the high water mark for the trio with 16 goals and 37 points.
On the Leafs, Antropov, White, Wellwood, and Poni all put up points for less than $45,900 each. Antropov actually scored points at a clip of 1 point per $34,821, and he ended up with 26 goals and 56 points, Poni had 18 goals and 35 points. Antropov is a huge upgrade over any of the cheaper forwards on Vancouver, Ponikarovsky is surely no worse than any of them.
Considering the fact that the last player of note to ride shotgun with the Sedin’s was Anson Carter who had 33 goals with them 2 seasons ago, and his career high without the Sedins was 28 goals with the Oilers (he was 31 when he was with Vancouver)… Antropov scored 26 and he’s only 27.
By Down Goes Brown on Jun 19, 2008
Interesting take… I still don’t think that package of three would be enough for the Canucks. It’s basically trading three quarters for a dollar.
If I’m the Canucks I wouldn’t move the #10 pick for Antropov. I guess I’m not as high on him as others. If a deal like that could happen, I hope Cliff pulls the trigger.
By Marco on Jun 19, 2008
Steve you can throw out statistics all you want. Antropov is never worth a #10 overall pick. Ever.
The fact of the matter is Vancouver’s top 6 is just awful, but they aren’t gonna blow the pick on a guy who may or may not be around for half the season. Poni and Antropov MIGHT get it done, thats a big might though.
By Steve on Jun 19, 2008
The key issue for Vancouver is that Luongo wants to win now. Taking a player at 10th overall and developing him over the next 3 or 4 years isn’t really a luxury they have. For that reason, the value of the 10th pick for the Canucks is lower than it would be otherwise. The other NHL franchises know Gillis has already said he’ll move the pick, and he basically needs to, to improve short term.
The other advantage the Leafs have, as pointed out in PPP’s posting earlier today, is that Antropov is far cheaper than comparable players on the market. Ryan Malone is likely to make over $4 million a year when he signs as an UFA this off season. Antropov is on the books for $2.05 million. You can get a comparable player, for half the cost? I’d say that’s a pretty decent deal for Vancouver.
As for Antropov’s injury issues and points scored, consider that Malone has played 218 games in the past 3 years (with Sidney Crosby mind you), and has 126 points over that span (0.578 ppg), and he’s turning 29 this year. Antropov has played 183 games over the past 3 seasons, but he has 120 points over that stretch (0.656 ppg). If they each played 70 games, that works out to 46 points for Antropov and 40 points for Malone.
Oh and I think I should also mention that prior to THIS season, Malone had a grand total of 5 games playoff experience, and had exactly 0 points. This past year was his first real time in the playoffs. Antropov has been to the playoffs 4 separate seasons in his career, and while he only has scored 5 points in those playoff games, The last time he was there was before the lockout, so I wouldn’t hold it against him.
By Steve on Jun 19, 2008
Oh one other thing I should point out is, if the Leafs don’t trade Antropov, and they can somehow sign Malone, I’d be happy with that also. I think Malone is over-rated, but I think if they buyout Tucker, and deal McCabe, that he has some of the Jam they’ve sorely lacked, and will be losing in those 2 players.
By Marco on Jun 19, 2008
I am sure that if Vancouver puts the 10th pick on the market, they will get many offers. Whatever deal they get for it will be better then just Antropov, or Antropov and his Ukrainian sidekick Poni!
By Steve on Jun 19, 2008
Perhaps in a package deal they might, but in looking around at the rest of the NHL, I’m not sure who will be keen to toss out one of their top 6 forwards - especially if they’re under 30. Carolina is rumoured to be dangling Erik Cole, I could also see teams like Florida, Minnesota, Colorado, and the Islanders being interested. But I don’t think Vancouver trades with Minny or Colorado. Buffalo could move one of their older wingers, and Atlanta is thinking od trading Kovalchuk.
Would Nashville consider trading Dumont or Sullivan? Perhaps… though I doubt it. The Kings are also a possibility.
There are other teams out there willing to deal, I’m just not sure if those players are worth just about a 10th pick overall. Remember this is a player that hasn’t played in the NHL they are vying for. It’s not like you’re getting a sure thing… the kid might get injured before he sees NHL ice. It’s not always a good idea.
Even if 75% of the kids drafted in the first round pan out to be solid NHL’ers, that still leaves 7 or 8 busts in the first round. It’s entirely possible that what you give up is going for nothing.